/cyb/ - cyberpunk and cybersecurity

>>602
This is why we cannot accept putting our tech into the hands of anyone or anything that is corporate or state. The opposite of dependent is independent. Make an effort to
>avoid post-2008 Intel chips
>modify post-2006 Intel chips
>avoid post-2013 AMD chips
>use fully free Unices like anything approved by FSF, any Debian and any *BSD
>transition to or initiate a local meshnet
>hell maybe invest in a shortwave radio comm system as a backup

Say what you want about America and the EU, but one has a legal system that's serious about speech and the other has a legal system that's serious about privacy. Australia has kangaroos.

On a side note, one of you should register shakemyhead.com.au and redirect appropriately.

>>604
Nevermind. The whois record is inactive but the domain is claimed.

>>606
They prefer the term client state.

>What is it with Anglo States becoming Surveillance states?
I've often wondered about this, and I've come to the conclusion that it all comes back to them originating from prude, victorian, no-fun-allowed values.

>If there are encryption keys then those encryption keys have to be put at the disposal of the authorities.
Authorities have the bad habit of changing. Tomorrow there might be someone else at the top who will love all this power given to them. Of course knobhead politicians never think this far because they think themselves untouchable, they unironically believe they will be "in charge" forever.

>allow countries to destabilize
>terrorism!
>w-we need 1984 IRL now t. politicunts
it's almost as if this was planned all along

Of course you can never stop development of encryption which is algorithms which is mathematics.
What might happen though, is that governments will forbid all messengers except backdoored ones and you'll be put on a watchlist for not using approved botnet apps.

>"I personally want to live in a world where reasonable people and companies would say, 'You know what? Under the rule of law, and with the right oversight and a warrant, communications can be listened to when it's needed to protect us.'"
translated:
>"I personally want to live in a world where [bullsoykaf, bullsoykaf, bullsoykaf] communications can be listened to [bullsoykaf, bullsoykaf, bullsoykaf]
again, he forgets that "authorities" change, and everything that can be abused, will.

>>610 addendum

So what can you do about it?
Stop using closed source software and surveillance sites, simple as that.

>b-but I need WhatsApp for this group
bullsoykaf

>b-but I need to be on Facebook lest I miss these important events
bullsoykaf

If you're serious and not just a LARPer, you will deal with the inconvenience of not being on those platforms.
This is what separates the wheat from the chaff.

>>611
>If you're serious and not just a LARPer, you will deal with the inconvenience of not being on those platforms.

The Admin team here use telegram, it requires you to register with your phone number.

To be fair the Clients are GPL but contains binary blobs, the server is Closed.

IIRC Group chat on that are all in the clear, no enc, person to person is over their own protocol.

Using telegram when XMPP + OTR/OMEMO exists…

>>610
>again, he forgets that "authorities" change, and everything that can be abused, will.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/20/xenophon-pushing-for-details-on-police-tapping-of-parliamentarians-phones

The Australian Federal Police already abuse their powers daily

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-28/afp-officer-accessed-journalists-call-records-in-metadata-breach/8480804

>Tomorrow there might be someone else at the top who will love all this power given to them

Tomorrow it might be unsafe to be you, you may be gay, transgender or a racial minority, and the people with access to that data may simply let it slip to people that hate you. Or may come and give you a visit for a new retroactive law.

Fuck the people up top.

>>612
Telegram group chats are encrypted, but client-to-server encrypted, stored essentially in the clear on their servers. Secret chats, which are between 2 people, are e2e encrypted with MTProto

ITT: admin team confirmed as morons

>>612
We are not using Telegram to feel secure. It's just the place where we chat.

I share your sentiments.

I find Telegram unethical for marketing itself as software that respects privacy and provides security yet: if one or both users are using the desktop client, there is no end-to-end encryption; if one or both users haven't opted into encryption, there is no end-to-end encryption; group chats cannot be end-to-end encrypted no matter what; and there is no end-to-end encryption by default whatsoever.

I frequently disparage Telegram (1, 2, 3) and even went out of my way to shame them on my website (4).

Nevertheless, getting lains to use the same software is worse than herding cats and Telegram was the only program I could get everyone to agree to use. Also there aren't really any alternatives. I encourage the use of XMPP+OTR on my guide, but there is no working implementation of end-to-end encrypted group chat so the point is dubious.

The instant >>>/cyb/258 happens I will be the first to abandon Telegram.

1. https://archive.lainchan.jp/sec/res/1742.html#1742
2. https://archive.lainchan.jp/sec/res/382.html#2543
3. https://archive.lainchan.jp/sec/res/382.html#1946
4. https://www.cyberpunked.org/#essentials

Terrorists are'nt stupid they will use PGP encrypted messages over encrypted apps like telegram , signal , wire ….
So what's the point of spying on encrypted messages ?
stupid govens

>>611
what do you mean by LARPer in this context?

>>627
Actually they are stupid and they tend to use SMS and other methods already covered by bulk data collection. And failing that they use people carrying envelopes on motorcycles.

These attacks keep happening because intelligence agencies have got a fuarking hardon for sigint at the expense of humint. They're wallowing in data but with no good old fashioned leg work to put the picture together the busts never happen and the attacks still get carried out.

>>635
'you are less 1337 than me' is what it comes across as.

Also here's a couple of examples of WhatsApp being a trashcan fire:

https://twitter.com/mulander/status/874370124932943874

https://twitter.com/0xjomo/status/874585822158352384

>>637
People just need to get over it.

I'm sure they know what they are doing, they have been doing it for a while.

>>622
but why use an insecure messenger in the first place when using a secure one takes exactly the same effort?

>>624
>but there is no working implementation of end-to-end encrypted group chat

OMEMO

I really wish it caught on more. Maybe it needs a few tech sites reporting on it…

>>847
it's already been stated numerous times from numerous people with differing preferred systems that there are no good secure end to end group chat systems? From what I understand their usage is almost strictly for group chat.

Now actually I've been thinking about a private hosted Asterisk PBX implementation, local comms only, access explicitly via VPN tunnel, encrypted speech path and control signalling, implement conference bridge on top of that. Think old-school party-lines.

But then you just have to trust me when I say I'm not branching the calls at the switch and dumping RTP to disk, right?

>>602
>What is it with Anglo States becoming Surveillance states?
It's not just Anglo states. It's every state that has the means. We just hear about the Anglo states more often than the others because we're a bunch of Anglos.

>there are no good secure end to end group chat systems

OMEMO
I feel like the resident shill here but it simply works.
It's more comfortable on phones because the only viable desktop client is some GTK2 soykaf, but there are CLI clients in the works already.
One downside is having to encrypt every message for every recipient in the group, but that's E2E for you.

Man, that's absurd logic and they're taking it to its logical conclusion.

>>603
>transition to or initiate a local meshnet
Is piratebox the best around? If someone knows some bunch about this, please start a thread about decentralized and distributed technologies, it sounds interesting.

>>850
>>857
>OMEMO
It does seem good, they have a nice client at conversations.im that also supports OTR and XMPP and lets you make an account in their XMPP server without leaving the app, if I understood correctly.

https://conversations.im/

>>602

>Terrorists could write their own encryption software or migrate to apps that were based in out-of-reach jurisdictions.

Yeah right, they are posting all their crap on the clearnet, facebook is literally filled with jihadi soykaf

The bataclan fucks used SMS to communicate, nuff said

This is nothing but a powergrab to control the population

>>891
man even worse than SMS, at the time there were rumors about them communicating via playstation 4. The truth is they'll always find a way soykaf is fucking useless the cons outweight the pros by far

>>861
piratebox isn't really for meshnets. If you want to start a meshnet read up on cjdns.

as for piratebox i personally prefer anyfesto which is a nice updated fork

>>898
>anyfesto

CBurner is working on a ground up Raspberry Pi system like does the same thing. The only difference is some assembly is required.

Get A Raspberry Pi with a WiFI Adapter.
Install DietPi,
Install a DHCP server,
Install HostAPD,

Bam you have a AP serving IP.

Install DNSMasq and resolve all DNS requests to host,
Install Lighthttpd, set a 302 redirect for everything not the hosts address to it,

bam the users is being requested to login to the network on login,

Install any other server you want and have it referenced on the webpage, congrats you now have something a lot more configurable than the piratebox.

Sure it needs more work, but its not hard and you can service more requests.

https://gitla.in/CBurner/phantom-ap

>What is it with Anglo States becoming Surveillance states?
colonialism, probably.

>>905
>colonialism

Yeah its allllllllllways colonialism

More likely its because traditionally power has been concentrated at the top. And the Anglo states are more open bout the BS they are perusing.

>>892

Problem is intelligence agencies are lazy as fuck these days

The few ones that get soykaf done are the old school ones with old methods instead of just spying on everybody

>>911
have you considered the two may be connected?

>>931
Nope, considering there are other former colonial powers that don't act this way.

At this stage I think its because the Anglo nations ave the most powerful corps that encourage this behavior to prevent uprisings as they dominate for themselves.

>>905
saudis, south korea, china, etc.

that's just off the top of my head.

you can't blame white people for everything.

(okay, I know I'm being facetious here, but the surveillance state inclination is not unique to the anglosphere/colonialists)

>>934
>>936
this is a response to both of you, but the points are connected so they're kinda mashed together a little.

>>934
We both know Britain once had and the USA now has the largest empire in the world and I wouldn't be surprised if one reason for that is their use of surveillance. See the example in the first article I linked about how a panopticon prison was built in India or how knowledge of local customs was used to exert control in that region.

The panopticon was designed by an Englishman and the United States remains the country with the most active panopticons in a material sense. You can't deny the history of this practice has roots in the English empire but I will give you it was American capitalism that developed the surveillance state of affairs we know today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon

note by american capitalism I refer to the disaster-based, post-9/11 mode of domination used equally by the state and corporate elites following say, Katrina. Truly the elites of both occupy the same space with congressmen buying stock and shareholders holding public office a but that's all tangential.

>>936
I would implore you to read the articles I've linked and not jump to conclusions such as, this poster is trying to convince you everything can be blamed on white people, a powerful strawman white supremacists use for recruitment. Please note that I said nothing about whiteness in my post and additionally, I did not deny colonialism existed outside of europe. But to simply say "there are empires beside the biggest one" is completely non-sequitur when it comes to a serious analysis of how that empire got to be so big in the first place.

If it sounds like I'm making a lot out of a few words in my post, I would again direct your attention to the two papers with a sum of roughly 125 pages. Please read them before rushing to attack ghosts.

Of course the bluntest reason -why- panopticism would be so prevalent in english empires is that the panopticon was invented by an english man, this answer is incomplete when you consider that many other things were invented by englishmen that we (fortunately) could not give a rat's ass about.

The reason why it's so widespread in these empires is because of how effective it is for imperialism.

But by attempting to negate every aspect of what you think my point is, you've really made it for me - by pointing out several other empires (not all ofc, as I cannot say I am well informed on every single country or even the ones you listed) that have panopticons you've given me even more examples of the panopticon used to colonize. I can only thank you for that.

>>938
Do you guys just have to soykaf up everywhere you go with your politics?

The British had the most powerful empire but amazingly they where also one of the "better" imperial overlords. surveillance is a thing imperials did, but that dose not explain the other nations that do engage in this behavior that where not imperials.

The elites are the ones pushing for control and surveillance, what we see is this is happening with nations that have very strong elites. Not just a colonial history.

I don't know though my History teacher for 4 years was a Ex US Marine who got a PhD in History while serving….

>>939
right, I didn't really set out to answer that question, just answer the question of "why do anglo powers seem to be spying the most?"
everyone seems to be spying of course, but perhaps the visibility of anglo powers is related to them being the largest empire because that visibility gives them power. at the same time, they can afford that visibility because there will be no potent international outrage or potent civil unrest.

>>940
>>939
also like, I feel like when it comes to elites, natural speaker english proficiency is basically a form of capital, so it reduces back to what you said originally. surveillance is used by the elites to reify their power, anglos do it the most because all the billionaires speak english - it's the language of commerce.

>>940
Fair enough, I really don't think this is the result of colonialism though.

As the old saying goes, Correlation does not mean causation.

>>941
The elites are the most dangerous, they can pay to control us, and will. Some of the worst offenders aren't even Anglo. Looking at the Chinese its kind of revealing.

>>939

>The British had the most powerful empire but amazingly they where also one of the "better" imperial overlords.

Except for their charming habit of creating nation-states and other areas of jurisdiction by using straightedges on maps, instead of taking into account the local where ethnic groups actually lived. Do you have any idea how many civil wars in Africa or the Middle East happened, and are still happening, because Britain basically put two or more powerful rival ethnic groups within the same borders?

And Britain's not alone in this. Every moderately succesful European empire did the same damn thing. Looking at you, France.

>>944

Nation states are a relatively new thing, weren't really a thing back then. Putting different people in the same borders wasn't really that catastophic historically.

>>973
This is true. But what I'm saying is that while those borders worked well for the colonial powers when they were in charge, the borders have almost invariably led to catastrophe after the colonial powers left or were driven out.

>>973
>Putting different people in the same borders wasn't really that catastrophic historically.

It lead to a number of horrible civil wars and oppressive dictatorships .

It indirectly cause the Rwanda genocide .

The it would create the grounds for sectarian religious conflict in the middle east.

For Africa and the middle east it was most definitely catastrophic.

>>951
Yeah, but not a archo communist one.
It was about Old Mate George Brandis being a massive fuckhead who thinks he can control the internet.

>>973
Nation states aren't as new as you think when you take culture into consideration. Large states always pushed for uniform culture.

Race and background is not the issue that leads to wars, its a difference in culture.

>>991
> Large states always pushed for uniform culture.
That's obviously not true, the Ottoman Empire is a pretty famous counterexample. Before nationalism people cared about ruling dynasties and religions, they probably didn't even have a concept of culture as we do.

>>991

Perhaps we're talking about different timescales.

In Feudal Europe it was very common for peasants to be of different culture from nobles and both of them from burghers and then that'd vary between areas. This started changing only in late 18th and 19th century. For me it's relatively recent.

Another thing is that separating people by borders doesn't work really that well. War and tensions between Pakistan and India come from that.

>>992
Yeah I Mean the Hungarians just totally wish they where within the Ottoman empire again…

>>993
Yet borders have existed for a very long time. Thats the thing, the French and Germans always had a border, it was never super policed 100's of years ago, but it existed.

>Another thing is that separating people by borders doesn't work really that well

Because opening them has worked so well for people born in the nations who need jobs. Honestly wen you have a major income disparity they seem to work damn well for the nation with a high standard of living.

We arn't in medieval times anymore.

>>995
>Because opening them has worked so well for people born in the nations who need jobs. Honestly wen you have a major income disparity they seem to work damn well for the nation with a high standard of living.

Why is the people who are born in the nations more important then does who aren't.

>>999
why are the people who are born outside of the nation important?
see semantics, its just luck that they got born outside or in
and states originally were about the citizens and the rights and conditions of said citizens
going out of the way to care about outsiders is potential detrimental to citizens.
cant help everyone unfortunately

>>1013
>cant help everyone unfortunately

That's because of the limits of our current system, not of the limits of reality.

>going out of the way to care about outsiders is potential detrimental to citizens.

People might suffer short term loss's but they would in the long term massively benefit from helping outsiders and if they don' t help them they might get short term benefits form doing so but suffer large long term consequences like lost of freedom, economic stagnation and radicalization of outsiders.

Well if any ones interested the Law were passed.

"The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia."

http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-laws-of-australia-will-trump-the-laws-of-mathematics-turnbull/

>>1014
>That's because of the limits of our current system, not of the limits of reality.

A planet has finite resources.

>People might suffer short term loss's but they would in the long term massively benefit from helping outsiders

Yeah, not taking the bait.

Japan has it right.

>>1015
Japan is struggling to import enough foreign workers because their native workforce is rapidly shrinking and cannot supply the labor that the economy demands.

>>1015
>A planet has finite resources.

Technically true, but it does not necessarily follow that everyone needs can't be met.
Plus the amount of resources is largely determined by human and machine social labour, we probably could not meet virtually every desire but we certainly can meet everyone's basic needs.

>>1022
That's the exact thing the Corporations say, that way they can pay everyone less and continue reducing the value of the Western Worker

>>1015
>Japan has it right.
Japan is fucked. They are facing an imminent demographic nightmare. They have a rapidly aging population. Employers don't pay enough anymore to raise a family on one salary, and they demand extremely long workinghours. Even the old-fashioned salaryman/housewife-combo situation that allowed for couples to have kids is vanishing fast.

Japan is going to either have to enact and enforce strong labour laws that prevent corporations from fucking over young employees, or they're going to have to allow mass immigration to handle more-physical jobs that an aging native workforce can't handle anymore, or they're going to go nuts on an "automate all the things and hope to hell automation gets good enough, fast enough" plan.

I'll give you three guesses as to which of those options that they're trying. And it isn't number one or two.

>>603


Could someone please source this info for me? I am very very very interested in which chips have Backdoors and which don't but can't find much good analysis/info on the subject?

>>1049
Intel Management Engine and AMD Platform Security Processor should get you started.

>>861
>decentralized and distributed technologies

Freenet for example

>>911
Colonialism is when people from one country settle in another one, and once there continue to have the same culture they had at home.
A colony is a territory so settled.
Simple as that.

>>944
Why didn't they redivide the country among the different ethnic groups then?
Somalia is probably the most homogeneous country in Africa, but it's not a prosperous nation state.

The premise that anglo states do the most spying is surely a false one when remember that China exists. Perhaps Russia too, I don't really know.

>>1334
That was always mostly inside their own borders (and are forever lambasted in the press for it)
Anglo states were caught doing not only that, but also regards all foreign citizens as potential 'terrorists' (and got some headlines, through a limited number of news agencies, others heavily distorting or refusing to report on it)