/cyb/ - cyberpunk and cybersecurity

I want to believe it is because we like get to the bottom of things, which usually means getting past lies like that everything leftist must be "big government." But I don't actually know.

I suggest you look into anarchism, libertarian communism and other "freedom oriented" leftist political ideas because your current understanding of the left seems to be really limited.

>>1542
I'm a programmer and thus believe in structure, anything to do with anarchy is therefore off the table.
Communism was a nice proof of concept, but it always ends in corruption because there will always be someone with the highest charisma with the littlest care to fuck it up.
I don't see anarcho-communism as a system at all, because it believes in personal property, but not in private property.
Imagine a few million people all using the same tools to all make bread for themselves, either everything will fall apart because there's nobody to blame if a tool breaks, or there must be a greater entity that takes care of the "means of production".
These means cannot be shared, for they require maintenance, and maintenance is always either done by the government, or by a private caretaker.
Thus all means of production either goes to be property of the state, which may blame anyone, or become property of any one person, which makes it private property.
shared means will never work in a grand spectrum.
There's nothing wrong with the government supplying the people with work with which they can earn their bread, however.

Anarchism is not a lack of structure and there are plenty of programmers who are anarchists, including myself.

See, this is why you need to read. You are full of misconceptions and rely on stupid memes instead of thinking. Just look at your picture. Who in their right mind would accuse Marx of never working when he had authored so many books?

>>1544
Writing books is not working. You're writing posts right now, I hope you don't define yourself to be working at the moment.
I've read plenty, my picture is not a meme, it's just a picture of Marx with a few truthful sentences.
How can you not see the hypocrisy in the contents of Marx's theories compared to the way he lived his life?

>>1541
>Why is almost anyone on arisuchan, lainchan, uboachan etc all so politically progressive?
Stop making assumptions. You don't know us all.

>>1545
>How can you not see the hypocrisy in the contents of Marx's theories compared to the way he lived his life?
How is that relevant? You should evaluate arguments on their merit instead of invoking ad hominems.

I am personally right wing as fuck but I care about my lainons no matter what. Being old school makes you realize the wired matters more.

Cyberpunk portraits a dystopian society. Of course people dislike corrupt police officers. This does not mean having a subway in the city or a free university is a bad thing.

I just want the things that have been shown to work, i.e. healthcare. Not full communism/capitalism or whatever you want to call it. I have no idea why people always have to go to the extremes instead of choosing the best ideas from any side.

>>1541
I'm "anarcho-capitalist" in the sense that our search for cooperation and "not doing bad things to other people" has lead to centralized structure and decision making. That is, there was a rational or irrational incentive to create government, and a rational or irrational incentive to continue it. (An especially strong incentive to continue government, too!)
I usually just say I'm "liberterian". I don't know what to call my philosophy.
I believe that the solution lies between non-cooperative game theory and behavioral economics. There are multiple characterizations for a solution:
1. Humans have an incentive to cooperate in all non-cooperative games. One outcome is an anarcho-communist utopia.
2. Humans need outside incentive to cooperate in some non-cooperative games. One outcome is for a government to provide incentive, but does not police.
3. Humans will not cooperate in some non-cooperative games. One outcome is a government that provides incentives and policing.
4. Humans will never cooperate in most non-cooperative games. One outcome is that government cannot last.
5. Another option that I have not thought of.
We live in option 3. The government provides positive incentive (subsidies) and negative incentive (jail, fines).
Is there any solution for autonomous decision making, like in options 1 and 2? Surely those scenarios would be better than our situation today.

I will try not to sound condescending here but I will probably fail, just know that it's not my intention.
>I understand the desire for personal freedom and privacy, but supporting a socialist ideal is the exact opposite of that
This is the problem that I think a lot of right wingers run into: a basic misunderstanding of what leftism means. This is bound to happen when the main way you hear about another groups ideas is from a group that opposes them. I am saying this under the assumption that you get most of your information on leftism from right leaning, centrist or "liberal" sources. I'm no expert and there's literally 100 years worth of literature on the subject, so I will suggest that you read some leftist literature. I think a good book to read is The Conquest of Bread by Peter Kropotkin. You can read it for free here http://thebreadbook.org/
>leftist ideals, also known as big government
Again, this is not a leftist ideal. Just like there are people on the right who want a strong, powerful government and some want no government at all, the left is the same. "big government" as you call it is not at all inherently leftist, in fact, most leftists I know would oppose it just as much as you. Anarchists for example don't believe in any sort of government, they think all government is big government. which brings me on to
>I'm a programmer and thus believe in structure, anything to do with anarchy is therefore off the table.
Once again, you seem to misunderstand. Anarchy just means no rulers, not no rules. Anarcho-syndicalism for example has a lot of structure set out. You may have noticed I have just been naming things and not going into detail explaining them. This is because 1) I don't think an imageboard is a good medium for accurately explaining complex political ideas 2) a lot of people have done it already and better than I ever could. I suggest if anything I have said seems interesting you should look it up, perhaps find some literature on the subject and read more about it. I think a free speech advocate such as yourself would be happy to read something even if you disagree with it.
I think I have said enough. All I ask is that you to do your own research and don't listen to random people on the internet when it comes to choosing what to believe (random people on the internet includes me)

>>1541
American: the post

>>1541

Before i go on what i think, let me say this. I don't hate the system as it is. For many years i believe my self as an Anarchist until i realise that i gave my opinion really little value.

I don't care what kind of politic any country run. What i care about is my individuality, even if i don't really like showing it, the simple though that i can in this moment expresse my individuality and practice what i value i don't care about anything. Some people will take all their free time to express to the world how they feel about the society and the politics, me, i'm trying change things with my value in head without moving the world around me.

You vote every day with what you eat, drink, clean, read etc. If we had a world around what in our culture cyberpunk will see fit, another type of ''Cyberpunk'' will raise. Our culture need this socity to exist this is why i believe that destroying/changing it would be meaningless because with internet we can redpill people that wilingly put themself in a situation where there wanna learn and break free.

>>1543
Most anarchist philosophies do not lack structure though, actually only the edgy surface ideals lack structure, even anarchism in very classical forms still has structure and rationale. You seem to generally lack political and philosophical education. Based on your image and inability to comprehend anything beyond what you're raised with and take as natural.

Your post is just a collection of memes and narrow mindedness. Please read some books.

The word "progressive" barely means anything anymore. American politics is so perverse that supporting radical levels of personal freedom touches enough social trigger topics to get you labeled a progressive by the mainstream right-wing.

I believe in people's right to be colored/gay/trans without harassment while also believing in people's right to own firearms, have bionic head cannons, take steroids, have robot legs, get cosmetic feline iris tattoos, etc.

Frankly we're just a bunch of Lains, Lain.

The only thing anarchists appear to ever do is go around saying that anarchism isn't this or that and people need to educate themselves. I really have not seen or heard of them do anything besides this.

>>1548
This is the correct answer, and it really doesn't need to be more than this. This is not a political board. Everyone knows that the existence of the wired would flip politics and the rest of the world over.

>>1546
this

Because the users of this site split from the main of 4chan and 8chan, years ago.
They're not redditors, as redditors normally don't have the patience or wherewithal to dig into the slow and deeper imageboards.
They hold their own beliefs built up off each other and reaffirmed. Just as how /pol/ dominated 4chan at least until reddit overran the site completely. A board culture or group if they are not allowed to function will split off into their own site where they will get to live as long as people have interest in perpetuating it.
Reddit doesn't like dressing up like nazi's, so the character of 4chan is changing to reflect despite the insistence of the oldfags.
Same as how /g/ and /k/ bled users onto 8chan when Gookmoot put out the crypto miner captcha, if you undermine the user's of the site, they're going to leave. And a carcass like 4chan is too rich to die, someone will put on their clothes and pretend to be /pol/ or /v/ but this time in three years /pol/ will be /r/politics as far as anons are concerned.