/cyb/ - cyberpunk and cybersecurity

I don't think you need the classroom itself to be digital, they already have govt-run education's grades in databases. That's easier because we're not crazy enough (I think) to normalize "digital kindergarten" as in distance online education for childs.
This made me think of psychographics, creepy in a similar, perhaps related way. It's basically the marketing technique of making business use of the knowledge of such personal traits.
https://www.corbettreport.com/psychographics-101/
That's a podcast, here's the file itself:
http://www.corbettreport.com/mp4/ep319.mp4

I saw another thread on a very similar topic recently - maybe it was over on .org. Anyways…

TBTB (for lack of a better term) will always find a way to get what they want, or at least reasonably close to it. They already are - and for a very long time have been - embedded deeply in the educational system. If we try to meet them head-on then we fight an uphill battle; they arrived on the battlefield first and took the high ground. Trying to stop their advance will only delay them - maybe by a few years, maybe by a decade - but they will keep pushing us back. What is our strategy supposed to be here? Can we win by saying "no, we don't want that, give us what we want"? No. They will never work to give us what we want; they will only work to give us creatively-packaged flavors of what they want.

If we want something then we will have to build it for ourselves. They aren't going to create the future of education that we want; we ourselves will have to do that. The energy spent railing against the institution's educational "reforms" is better spent building reforms of our own. What we need is free and open source educational materials. We need free and open lectures, free and open textbooks, free and open lab guides, free and open moocs, free and open learning software, free and open lesson and course plans, et cetera. We need a free and open learning framework, K-12, that allows the new generation of children to study outside of the state- and corporate-controlled legacy system, either at home or in a new breed of small, low-cost, not-for-profit private schools. We need tools that empower any child to be a student and any adult to be a teacher. We need to focus our energies and efforts upon creating these resources, not upon a futile attempt to impede the advance of TPTB. If we meet them head-to-head on the battlefield then we will be outgunned. The only winning strategy is to go underground, to take a dive, hold our breath, let them pass over above us and then emerge behind their lines.

We can do all the huffing and puffing that we want, but we will never be able to blow their house down. The only way to win is to bypass their house entirely, leaving them without any prey upon which to sustain themselves. Attempts at the former are, for the most part, wasted energy. That is why I, at least, am not "rioting" against the advance of corporate influence in the state school system.

>>1123
I think that the institutions that are closer to what you propose are independent libraries. The ones run by volunteers. Children, even babies less than 1yo, are generally amazed at the books and enjoy them no less than a vidya junkie going over Steam or something. Kids who've been in scool for some years often can't understand libraries, they can't see why anyone would voluntarily suffer through the reading of a book when they're not under obligation. So maybe you'd have to start like it's kindergarten in those cases, reading to the kids so that they encounter the joy of being able to choose what they learn, choose who they group with, manage their own schedules (if they want to have one), look for what to learn next and teach eachother. Then, you don't need to manage anything, just have the resources be available and no central planning would be needed. Good ideas don't need enforcing.
Libraries often host workshops, drawing classes, philosophy lectures, study groups, reading/writing groups, movie projections, theater plays, and anything else people come up with.

>>1122
Students who are too young to type in their passwords can login using badges.

>>1123
I have no hopes but I would have expected people to at least to try to resist it. But other than a few outliers, nobody seems to mind, and some are outright celebrating it.

Alternative schools are great, but I don't think they are any more realistic. The real problem seems to be lack of good educators and an easy way to translate your work into credentials accepted by employers, not the lack of education materials.

If digital classrooms become commonplace there is going to be a drastic change in most aspects of everyday life, for the worse. Imagine a whole generation disciplined by computer programs.

As someone who recieved these programs in the public school system i don't think you're aware of how full of cheating these programs are, flagrant and outright. kids who get shoved into these programs cheat openly and blatantly in front of the teachers who don't really seem to care that this is happening because they are pushed to only care about a grade as the bottom line. These are the classes that the normal kids are in because the children in honours and gates groups already have had their ego boosted into already selling their information and get to move a different set of dots on a screen. Naviance is very much so a data mining operation that kids are forced, emphasis on forced into having to use and supply with personal information by teachers and administrators whether or not they want to regardless of what they will do in life. The only time i saw the dynamic on the cheating change was when there was a strict proctoring of the exams by officials. Homeschooling is not an answer because the tests are digitally proctored in the same way as a naviance program. The one people should be scared about on these is how they're teaching history and literature. The actual educational programs are sloppily made but as far as I could tell benign if they were not being used for propaganda or being cheated on.

The schools also allow other third party groups in to datamine kids which is how most peoples kids wind up in things like whitepages. Groups that are datamining fronts are rotary, and avid as far as I can tell there may be local variants elsewhere but they all push the same thing to your kid and they try to recruit early. The message is about sending the kid to college and shaming them if they don't want to go or if they don't participate, in some cases disciplining the child for lack of participation.

I would say many of you are overestimating the power a lot of these programs will have with the exception of Naviance and those that are to "promote" kids to colleges with scholarships, which is the state allowing corporations to datamine children's personal info without even recieving payment for it.
tl;dr these programs are incredibly incompetent except for a few

>>1151
I've read about kids finishing one year's worth of material in eight weeks, not because they are so smart, but the tests are all multiple choice and you can take them as many times as you want.

>>1152
Some classes I can see that being the case such as sex ed. or something else thats trivial because some classes do not deserve a semester or trimester of the childs time. But its gotten most of its popularity in the makeup courses especially where teachers can't be fired as its allowed the school to find a middle ground between the unions and student complaints. I actually know some people who did that and got into college only doing half the work and knowing the bare minimum.
As for the cheating that goes on with these courses and the fact you will expend teachers not as instructors but as supervisors in the coming future, these programs may wind up choking themselves to death probably in these steps. They'll do budget cuts, cut teachers/supervisors, kids will be able to cheat more from their phone or something else, and the teacher will be unable to stop them, the schools are graduating 4.0 geniuses, turns out a 4.0 means retarded, the public and businesses get angry, people see little reason to by sympathetic to the schools, jump back to step one. And at the crux of that cycle i think society would see these programs removed from school for creating uneducated children and being a waste of public money.

>>1151
>you will expend teachers not as instructors but as supervisors in the coming future
Well, they're already hand-tied to the programs, so their main task I'd say is keeping the kids from going off the tracks, and evaluating them. Maybe it's the same thing.

>The actual educational programs are sloppily made but as far as I could tell benign if they were not being used for propaganda or being cheated on.
I wouldn't bet on that, did you hear about the "carrot points" thing? The programs' content is juicy ad space.
>The Canadian government has rolled out an app that gives you points for eating well and exercising and taking quizzes about the flu shot and other healthy activities!
youtu.be/nHC6qqSbwEE

>I would say many of you are overestimating the power a lot of these programs
I agree with this. We're the type of people who'd think that "they could feed that data to an AI that would know more about the children than their parents do, and tweak the variables to mold their behaviour treating them as brains.in.a.vat and have them see relevant youtube ads" but that's overestimating them, unless they pay gooogle to do it right for them, and we do it all around.
But, who knows, this coud be a beta version.

>>1154
>kids will be able to cheat more from their phone or something else
Did you hear about that government, I can't remember what country, that shut down the internet during the day in which college students took their entry tests? They did it so that they wouldn't cheat because the previous year the answers got leaked or something like that. They won't do that in the US or Europe, but the sweet spot could be around something like what Amazon does about cutting access to competitor buy/sell sites when you're on their stores' wifi so that you can't compare prices.

>And at the crux of that cycle i think society would see these programs removed from school for creating uneducated children and being a waste of public money.
As much as I'd like that, I disagree. If that were the case, people should be rioting against most of state scholarisation for the same reason.

>>1173
> As much as I'd like that, I disagree. If that were the case, people should be rioting against most of state scholarisation for the same reason.

The US for as terrible as the decentralized schooling is, would not be able to effectively censor kids going after the answers because of the testing schedule varying from district to district and school year can change county to county. I will concede my point about the program being removed might be me overexaggerating. Very likely however is that it will be weighted differently once people are confronted with the issue.

>I would say many of you are overestimating the power a lot of these programs

Google does have their hand in some programs but I can't pull up where I remember it from, I remember that the school at its laziest/worst would prefer to have a setup requiring sites to be on a whitelist for their access to be permitted. Still kids on unlimited or high data plans could easily bet on their service provider giving them access to an unmodified versoin of googlle because the phone is registered under or as the parent.

>I wouldn't bet on that, did you hear about the "carrot points" thing? The programs' content is juicy ad space.
>The Canadian government has rolled out an app that gives you points for eating well and exercising and taking quizzes about the flu shot and other healthy activities!

Bebus lainleaf, I'm speaking from a US perspective here. I know these things could change county to county with someone getting elected at a local level. I think /pol/ is right when they say that canada is a lost cause. Everything that goes on up there seems to be making this clean version of hell.

>Did you hear about that government, I can't remember what country, that shut down the internet during the day in which college students took their entry tests? They did it so that they wouldn't cheat because the previous year the answers got leaked or something like that. They won't do that in the US or Europe, but the sweet spot could be around something like what Amazon does about cutting access to competitor buy/sell sites when you're on their stores' wifi so that you can't compare prices.

That was Ethiopia. Schools doing that would only feed the ad revenue shortlink mirror sites in Russia get to help people cheat and pirate things.

>Well, they're already hand-tied to the programs, so their main task I'd say is keeping the kids from going off the tracks, and evaluating them. Maybe it's the same thing.
Exactly why when they cut the programs these people will be the first to go. I don't really remember them keeping people on track that well even on old hardware that took minutes to load a webpage. People would still have youtube, liveleak [school never thought to block that one], newgrounds, armor games, etc. The work would not be done, teachers will eventually just need to say "Managerial Experience McDonalds 3 years" when applying to be teachers.

>>1173
> unless they pay gooogle to do it right for them
Google are funding "tech-based learning solutions," so I wouldn't be surprised if they did it themselves:
https://www.blog.google/topics/google-org/helping-close-education-gap/

The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and Chan Zuckerberg Initiative are also involved.

>>1154
But if they keep defunding public education and firing professional teachers to hire supervisors, how are they going to undo the damage? It seems to me that they are digging their own graves.

>>1176
A lot of "initiatives" still cost the donee money, things from hardware to renovations all of which the school will likely foot in some way or another. Plus the it staff at a school might consist of a computer science teacher who is underqualified by not having a cert or any professional/educational experience with computers. Some of whom have not even taken a basic computer science course. The maintenance of such programs will not be free for the school.

I have heard the Gates program is effective at what it does, the problem is that many of the children wind up socially retarded or deal with an insane level of stress. It produces an intelligent individual but I have not heard anything regarding those coming out as well-adjusted. Rumours I've heard regarding the Gates programs impact on kids go from high stimulant(adderall and other drugs) usage to some kids turning off entirely, it is importing Asias problem of high stress schooling to the United States. However it lacks many of the components that give that culture its success. Zuckerberg is rather new in this field so I have not heard anything about his program yet. I have been out of public school for a few years so I would only have an outsider's perspective on what he is doing.

>>1179
The public teachers will be the supervisors. They won't have to teach a thing to the children. The damage will take years to undo or todays mediocrity will be the highest standard. I think the programs mentioned by >>1176 however might result in less mediocrity but will socially damage children.

>>1186
One of the main selling point is that you don't need professional teachers, only a few semi-professional supervisors, which means lower wages and reducing costs.

>>1174
>Schools doing that would only feed the ad revenue shortlink mirror sites in Russia get to help people cheat and pirate things.
Yeah, or p2p. I wonder if they will feature blocking of smart glasses, smart watches and such for this type of situation.

>>1186
>I have heard the Gates program is effective at what it does, the problem is that many of the children wind up socially retarded or deal with an insane level of stress
Some time ago it was all over the internet that they wanted to measure that with biometrics. It was a wristband that measured a substance we segregate when we're relaxed, they wanted to have the students wear that.

>It produces an intelligent individual but I have not heard anything regarding those coming out as well-adjusted.
>it lacks many of the components that give that culture its success
Yep, it's the making of a good worker 2.0, new version because it's not factories anymore. Now it's code-monkeying, being datamined, and many flavors of guarding the bee. Do one thing, and be dumb for everything else.

>it is importing Asias problem of high stress schooling to the United States
Students won't be able to bear with it, suicides rates will go up and emo will be a thing again. WHEN I WAS

>>1195
> Yeah, or p2p. I wonder if they will feature blocking of smart glasses, smart watches and such for this type of situation. Kids and those in closed off situations become very inventive, or manipulative. I remember seeing a girl cheat on her final once by keeping the phone on her desk at the minimal led strength to look up answers. Other things are organized diversion games with the teacher being called to one side of the room to enable the kids on the other end to cheat. Cameras are already a proposed notion for this but I doubt they'll be successful between student observation, legal challenges, and the lack of attentive personnel. As for p2p it might be an alternative but things like that require more of the technological disinformation to maintain the illiteracy we see now. Arms races always tend to end with the offensive strategies winning.
>Some time ago it was all over the internet that they wanted to measure that with biometrics. It was a wristband that measured a substance we segregate when we're relaxed, they wanted to have the students wear that.
I think they jumped the gun on their datamining plan a little too early then.
>Yep, it's the making of a good worker 2.0, new version because it's not factories anymore. Now it's code-monkeying, being datamined, and many flavors of guarding the bee. Do one thing, and be dumb for everything else.
I think it will cause crime to skyrocket. The reason public school is beneficial to kids is that it socializes them to everyone else, homeschool doesn't do this, the child doesn't learn life independent of the family. The folks who come out of that are usually docile but they will be likely targets for criminal victimization. Timid wimps who would be afraid to even report the crime.
> Students won't be able to bear with it, suicides rates will go up and emo will be a thing again.
I don't know if it will do anything as cancerous as bring emo to cultural relevance but the suicide rate will definitely change. I want to say emo was half a marketing scheme and half children who had a odd sense of ennui growing up. Misery doesn't need a commercial brand to show itself.

>>1197
>The reason public school is beneficial to kids is that it socializes them to everyone else
I think that there are better ways to socialize, namely meeting people in interest groups like music classes, woodworking workshops, volleyball, etc. or randomly meet people and your friends' friends and befriend the ones you like. That'd also do a lot against how some children (or teens) suffer alienation, discrimination, bullying and such due to the compulsory interaction with people they don't like.
Still, I don't think homeschooling is the best choice. A good study group can teach you better than the average teacher, professor, parent or computer program and you get to do socials with people you choose.
But yeah, friends are good and digital classrooms don't help.

>The folks who come out of that are usually docile but they will be likely targets for criminal victimization.
I don't know anybody who's been/being homeschooled, but I would guess that they would do socials somewhere else, and maybe even bring a couple friends to the homeschool. But I'm guessing.

>>1204
>That'd also do a lot against how some children (or teens) suffer alienation, discrimination, bullying and such due to the compulsory interaction with people they don't like.

I think that would only accomplish creating more people coming out of schools who lack the ability to empathize due to the insular nature of what their interactions will be.

>I don't know anybody who's been/being homeschooled, but I would guess that they would do socials somewhere else, and maybe even bring a couple friends to the homeschool. But I'm guessing.

If I remember correctly youtube has entire sections of their website dominated by children who have been homeschooled their entire life. Theirs a section of youtube dedicated to kids showcasing their homeschool routines I don't see any assertiveness in them. Its why I hold the opinion they would make easy targets for crime. In addition to the fact their socialization might come entirely from the internet.

>>1152
Oh yeah, those are fun!
I got saddled with a remedial class in high school where the entire thing was done via computer. You don't even have to trial-and-error the quizzes, because you can just ^C^V the question into google and the answer'll be the first result.

I didn't learn a single fucking thing, but my teachers thought I was brilliant because I was savvy enough to plow through it via Google.