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Help me fix this shit. https://legacy.arisuchan.jp/q/res/2703.html#2703

Kalyx ######

File: 1492412274352.gif (21.02 KB, 305x354, LainDressSlow.gif)

 No.16

Until further notice, I've decided to release copies of the lainzine on here, through twitter, and the lainzine mailing list. That includes Volume 4.

I have not personally found much disagreement with Appleman, or really any reason to be angry with him. However, I think he wasn't put in a situation he was prepared for. How Appleman approached lainchan.org has already been spoken about, the necessary changes are also spoken for, and it's not a topic I plan on pursuing.

My disappointment with lainchan began about a year ago. Kalyx brought in many different sorts of people to as a balancing act of sorts - he tried to get as diverse a range of opinions as possible to take advice from, and he tried to balance all the sides against one another. If this doesn't sound stable, it's because it wasn't. It wasn't long before opportunism emerged in many ways. The first was probably "backupgate," which is some old drama in which someone hinted at couping the site away from Kalyx, but generally about backups being made of the site. I of course did everything I saw necessary to save the site, although I definitely made some mistakes. But it's water under the bridge.

What isn't water under the bridge is the incredibly recent opportunism I've seen in members of the lainchan.org staff - really, the only members of the staff still remaining after most of the old guard left. There are at least 2 members of the staff who wanted to seize Kalyx's reformatting of the site to drastically remake lainchan.org to fit their own standards. I have this quote to demonstrate how its gotten over there:

4月 16 15:54:19 <k> I actually figured that
| it was also because it is a good chance to make large
| changes.

4月 16 15:55:33 <k> I'd feeling a little
| optimistic about "the event" because of that. We don't
| have to bring back every board, we can make large
| changes without incident, and it also helped remove a
| lot of the mods that don't care about lainchan without
| having to deal with the drama of talking about it.
4月 16 15:56:14 <l> It's similar to surviving a
| hurricane with all of the corpses having been washed
| away.
4月 16 15:56:26 <k> That's a good way of
| putting it
4月 16 16:01:44 <l*> We're on the internet; ignoring
| things is a valid strategy if we intend to do different
| things.


This is the kind of behavior I've had to deal with for a long time now, and I honestly have no further desire to work with individuals who act this way. Whether that be on lainchan.org or lainchan.jp, I don't want the admins of a community I'm a part of to be this unaccountable to the users.

You can say lainchan declined because of poor decisions Appleman made, you can say it's because of poor decisions I, Seph, Kalyx, nildicit, and others made. But the problems go much deeper than that.

I never had much desire to be a public face here, nor do I desire to represent one side or another in this recent event. I just publish the lainzine. Thanks for reading.

 No.17

>nor do I desire to represent one side or another in this recent event
yet here you are, picking a side

 No.18

>>17
and here we are. we've talked, you understand my position.

 No.21

>>16
You're probably the only guy out of the whole staff bunch I like.

 No.22

File: 1492425858776.jpg (315.45 KB, 480x640, __yakui_futaba_channel_and….jpg)

So in other words the zine is dead? Lainzine was a community project made by a small number of a very small community. This bunker site will only be visited by small part of this small community, so less people contributing.

 No.23

>>16

> he tried to get as diverse a range of opinions as possible to take advice from, and he tried to balance all the sides against one another. If this doesn't sound stable, it's because it wasn't.

It wasn't stable because some people were/are intolerant of other people's belief systems. It worked great when those people weren't there to start soykaf with another member of the team.

> There are at least 2 members of the staff who wanted to seize Kalyx's reformatting of the site to drastically remake lainchan.org to fit their own standards

I can't speak for lisp, but a lot of people have been complaining for a long time about how Lainchan is low quality and filled with soykaf posting. I fail to see how my desire to fix the community to make it better for the users is a bad thing. In fact, you jumped ship and are building lainchan to fit your own standards, lmao. That speaks volumes to me.

Side note, I shouldn't have to explain my statements. The mods I'm referring to were inactive for 6+ months.

Although, breaking that whole "We aren't going to share logs without the permission of other" thing, dude. That's low quality.

Cheers. I won't be on this site again, but good luck, I suppose.

 No.27

>>23
Are you a fascist too?

 No.33

>>22
the lainzine accepts pieces from the whole community. Anyone can submit, and we have our own site + my twitter and a mailing list to announce new releases, plus everyone knows my email. For LZ5, we'll actually have a distinct email for submissions so it's even easier to manage. Plus anyone else can make a thread on lainchan.org if they want to. Call it wishful thinking, but I get the feeling things will be fine on that front. The zine is bigger than I am.

>>23
you might not be back here, but I'll still answer your post.
I found it wasn't stable because some people left quicker than others - you and me were some of the last ones left. Yet many of the old team are still around, they just didn't want to participate anymore.

>my desire to fix the community to make it better for the users
ask yourself, if you find yourself planning things around the community - that is to say, tricking them into accepting changes using a crisis, is it really for their own good? People want the boards back - removing your 3 least favorite boards isn't helping anyone.

>Although, breaking that whole "We aren't going to share logs without the permission of other" thing, dude. That's low quality.
My logs were leaked before this. I know it wasn't by you, so I apologize for naming you, but there's no vehicle for accountability on lainchan.org. Someone had to blow the whistle.

>In fact, you jumped ship and are building lainchan to fit your own standards, lmao
For some reason, I feel like this logic can be applied to anyone taking action about anything.

>It wasn't stable because some people were/are intolerant of other people's belief systems. It worked great when those people weren't there to start soykaf with another member of the team.
Kalyx brought people in precisely because they weren't yes men. Maybe you should think about that.

 No.35

>>33

If you think the remaining staff are "yes men", you clearly look at a very different lainchan than I do.

 No.36

>>35
I wasn't making a statement about all staff members

 No.39

>>35
Doesn't excuse the fact that culturally, the site has been in stasis since the buyout; there was hope when appleman's "audit" supposedly finished, but that was all for naught.

 No.77

>>16
Might as well complain about things here instead of PMs.

Junk, what the fuck?

No, seriously, what the actual fuck are you doing?

The first problem I have with this is the notion of Lainzine as something you control - while you are a major driving force behind it, Lainzine isn't something that belongs to anyone that can be held hostage - let's be real, this is what it is - to drive users anywhere. Lainzine exists separately from drama or you, so don't bring it where it doesn't belong.

>What isn't water under the bridge is the incredibly recent opportunism I've seen in members of the lainchan.org staff - really, the only members of the staff still remaining after most of the old guard left.
There's a separate notion going around that it's Appleman and like two people versus some massive horde of mods that have split off, but it's more of a 50/50.

About the actual opportunism, there is none. I mean, really, what you are bringing up here isn't anything real. If you are making a claim that the quotes show something because kashire is saying that things being cleaned makes for a good restart and reinvigoration is somehow opportunism, then .jp is the same thing. It's not that .jp is inherently a bad idea, but you're operating under a clear double standard there.

Lisp's incoherent ramblings about politics haven't been taken seriously by any staff member since I-don't-know-when, and claiming that this is somehow indicative of the staff as a whole is either ignoring the entire past of the staff or blatant lying, which I really don't want it to be, because I like you, Junk, you fucking idiot.

Arguing with lisp happens here and there, but all he's done as an influence for the site is manage /lam/ and delete posts that break the rules. As much as his political views are a heap of trash for my liberal eyes, he doesn't powertrip or use his powers for doing anything that isn't ok.

Then there's the thing about changing the links. Honestly, out of everything, that might be the worst thing. As far as I am aware, that is genuinely the only instance of someone who is a part of the staff using their power in a way that is against the rules, moderation guidelines and basic human decency. The issue I have here isn't one of .org vs .jp - I think Appleman's a good person and he's committing his time for the site, more so than happened when kalyx was in charge - the most frustrating thing of all for me is the things that you've done, because after pulling soykaf like this, there is no gluing the staff back together.

I still like you Junk, more than a lot of other people from the staff, but I seriously think you've fucked up a lot of things with your handling of this all.


I just wanted to have a place where I don't have to feel like soykaf about unnecessary internal drama.

 No.78

File: 1492528611887.jpg (56.26 KB, 944x719, 1333769562197.jpg)

>>77
> while you are a major driving force behind it, Lainzine isn't something that belongs to anyone that can be held hostage - let's be real, this is what it is - to drive users anywhere. Lainzine exists separately from drama or you, so don't bring it where it doesn't belong.

>lainzine can't be held hostage
>don't work on it anywhere other than .org

I'm getting some mixed messages.

 No.79

>>78
>don't work on it anywhere other than .org
I was referring to not mixing drama and lainzine. Lainzine isn't a purely Lainchan thing, it got shared elsewhere and I think that excluding .org by trying to deny it to them when in reality most people will still get to read it if they want to, no matter which site they are on, is silly.

The main point in that bit is that this has nothing to do with the lainzine and bringing it up makes sense only when trying to "hold it hostage".

 No.85

>>79
idk why you'd think that. I've discussed this with the other staff on lainzine, emphasizing that anyone was able to share it on any platform they wished. I said it right here in fact: >>33

There is of course the matter that somebody else was spreading rumors about me trying to deny the lainzine to people, but I'm not, so anyone who tells you otherwise probably has an agenda. I just mentioned that because I don't currently plan to browse lainchan.org until the problems are fixed, so I wouldn't be able to make a thread there for the next release. but I feel like things will be different by then anyway.

> If you are making a claim that the quotes show something because k is saying that things being cleaned makes for a good restart and reinvigoration is somehow opportunism, then .jp is the same thing.
he obviously said more than that it makes for a good restart. for starters, he said we didn't have to bring certain boards back. evidently, he didn't want you to have those boards. In addition, he said we can "make massive changes without incident." This is quite different from "deleting soykafposts" as he said in this thread. Finally, he said we could let people go who didn't care about the site. but a couple of those very people wound up joining lainchan.jp. I won't name who, because I can understand if someone wants to keep a low profile. The point is that they're still active in the community and still care about the community.

in that respect, lainchan.jp is different. For instance, we brought back the boards that were "too vague" to keep existing on lainchan. But I'm not going to repeat what was already stated.

I don't know who you are, but I have a hunch and if you like me then chances are I like you. I promise you this will all be over soon enough. There's more I'd like to say, but I'd rather you email me or contact me privately to discuss this. you know where to find me.

 No.89

Lurker here. Is the Zine dead? Did some fash v. com fight tear Lainchan apart too?

 No.93

>idk why you'd think that.
You created this thread with the title "I'd like to release the lainzine on this platform." as if it was a platform specific thing. There was nobody else telling me things about it, just what you said here.

>he said we didn't have to bring certain boards back
There were a lot of people in the staff with different ideas who hoped for the exact changes, but he could want to kill half the human population for all I care - he had no power in the situation, his desired changes have not happened and don't seem to be happening, and none of his desires are any sort of representation for the staff. I have wanted changes too, but without an actual agreement that's gone through a discussion, things don't suddenly happen. It wasn't like that during kalyx days, but Appleman is much less impulsive and thinks things through more.

I don't want to start comparing kalyx and Appleman, since I like both of them, but I want it to be clear to everyone that Appleman does not have any major structural problems with his handling of things. He sometimes prefers things slowly, but that is not because of laziness of any sort, since he works on the site a lot.

I did not intend to obscure my identity here - I am Nonny and I dunno if I'll contact you anytime soon since I am frustrated and I really don't want to say any more mean things.

 No.105

>>93
You absolute deadman, can always contact me :3

 No.114

>>93
you assumed that my choice on where to release the lainzine controls where it gets talked about and where threads are made. That is simply not the case. After the lainzine is released, people are free to make a thread about it on any platform of their choosing. I simply won't make a thread about it on .org until further notice.

>he had no power in the situation
he did. I created a board, and another admin deleted it almost immediately. In addition, he said "we didn't add those boards because they were too vague," which was his personal opinion. He presented that information as if it was site policy. Appleman actually agreed with me that he shouldn't have done it, and that there should've been a review of the post. Posting under a staff username instead of as Anon ## Mod is his way of saying that it's his personal opinion, but nobody outside of the staff knows that and he's still using the authority of the ## Mod tag, so it becomes very easy to see his presentation as site policy.

More importantly, I was not comfortable with the way changes were made by the staff privately instead of openly where the community was aware. I had spoken with appleman before he bought the site about a mechanism for transparency (specifically, adding trusted members of the community as VIP positions in staff channels, which is what Kalyx did). It was discussed at a meeting and considered a good idea, but never became implemented. It seemed to me that discussion among the staff created a bureaucracy of sorts that seriously delayed / blocked most of the changes being made that were actually proposed at that meeting. It allowed particular individuals to raise a fuss about changes to be implemented and slow them to the point of nothing happening. This is one of the reasons why I'm boycotting .org.

The structural problems are not appleman's laziness - actually, quite the opposite. Appleman would take on more work for himself, without delegating power to anyone else. He also put himself as sole maintainer of all the services by way of the VPS. I saw this as a major point of failure and it's ultimately what brought lainchan. down. Kalyx had some delegation issues as well, but they weren't as bad and I found them manageable insomuch as I could put up with staff members I disliked working with. Like I said earlier, my desire to leave lainchan.org's staff started a while ago, but I still wanted to be connected to the community and have the role of a moderator. Lainchan.jp presented that opportunity, so I took it.

I have more to say on this subject, but I just realized I spent a good 40 minutes writing this and I have other work to do.
on a side note, xanax is proving to be a good tool if you have problems with getting sucked into things. I may go for a prescription.

 No.115

>>114
>>93
Also, I recognize that I assumed you were told by somebody else that I was holding the lainzine hostage. This is because a certain IRC user was spreading FUD about my actions, saying that I expected people to follow me here. He also said that I would fail because people would stop submitting to the lainzine if I only released it here. He was quite vocal and aggressive about these views, so I was running on the assumption that you got that info from him.

 No.127

>>89
not everything is about politics.
>>>/q/3

 No.316

I hate to meme this but where is the zine at now?

 No.318

>>316
being uploaded to teknik as we speak.


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