No.2190
Software groups such as cat -v and suckless, often seen as too elitist have great ideas and stances with some warrant that I can get behind. The use of minimal software, portability, and security are ideas I try to apply when I can and hope it catching on.
>Cat -vThe notorious site amoung programmers. Known for calling many of the popular standards, languages, platforms, software to be harmful. And what they consider good might seem unreasonable to expect usage.
>Sucklesshttps://suckless.org/philosophy/simple, minimal and usable. We believe this should become the mainstream philosophy in the IT sector. Unfortunately, the tendency for complex, error-prone and slow software seems to be prevalent in the present-day software industry.Designing simple and elegant software is far more difficult than letting ad-hoc or over-ambitious features obscure the code over time. However one has to pay this price to achieve reliability and maintainability.Many (open source) hackers are proud if they achieve large amounts of code, because they believe the more lines of code they’ve written, the more progress they have made. The more progress they have made, the more skilled they are. This is simply a delusion.
Most hackers actually don’t care much about code quality. Thus, if they get something working which seems to solve a problem, they stick with it. If this kind of software development is applied to the same source code throughout its entire life-cycle, we’re left with large amounts of code, a totally screwed code structure, and a flawed system design. This is because of a lack of conceptual clarity and integrity in the development process.
Code complexity is the mother of bloated, hard to use, and totally inconsistent software. With complex code, problems are solved in suboptimal ways, valuable resources are endlessly tied up, performance slows to a halt, and vulnerabilities become a commonplace. The only solution is to scrap the entire project and rewrite it from scratch. No.2194
You know how idealists are idea guys, right. And no, having made insert dead elitist app does not get you out of the idea guy zone.
No.2211
I'll never forget how when asked on their IRC why the suckless.org website didn't have TLS, they unironically said it was "bloat".
Security is bloat. Case closed.
No.2218
>>2211if you're connecting to suckless.org, its pretty clear what you're looking at. Pretty much the only thing tls would help you with, would be preventing ISP insertion of things, but that is in my experience exceptionally rare.
Software that doesnt help anything except in contraived circumstances is bloat.
Dont get me wrong, suckless is sort of full of an annoying attitude that is often perhaps loosing site of practicality in the service of minimalism, but honestly, https is overhyped as a security measure.
No.2219
>>2218TLS does have some bullsoykaf to it, true. Yet it is practical against your low/mid end nasty Bobs trying to pump some soykaf into You. That seem like an important cause for lots of people, plus they'd have to have a tls implemented for all sorts of other more intricate uses i believe, so why bitch about it?
No.2233
I recently learned about suckless and have started using st and slock, going to try out dwm next.
No.2234
Speaking of minimal I am testing if I am able to post using w3m. Enjoying it so far.
No.2236
Actually "suckless" sucks more because I can't do soykaf with that software
No.2237
>>2219>>2236why the f-ck is "sh-t" censored on this website?
No.2238
>>2237This is a christian website.
We do not tolerate vulgar language.
No.2240
>>2233dwm is excellent. Probably their best program.
No.2242
>>2240Stay away from surf though. It's pretty crap.
No.2243
First Endchan talk about this, and now arisuchan.
so, Wahhhhht ??
Suckless software is not that bad, I use dwm, st, dmenu, surf, dvtm and abduco (last 2 are inspired by suckless, but not offical) everyday, and it works great -not just fine-
No.2244
>>2243just to make it clear.
Surf is my main JS browser
dwm is my main WM
st is my main terminal
dvtm and abduco works together to make my main dropdown terminal
* mksh is my main shell (I don't write scripts)
I want to said, I use them heavely, NOTjust have them on my machine
No.2247
>>2244I never saw much use for dvtm, since I'm already tiling anyway, but I do like abduco.
mksh is fine, the only issue I have with it is that it keeps corrupting the history file. Apparently it can't handle more than one instance writing to it.
surf is the only one that just doesn't cut it IMO.
No.2248
>>2219yeah, this is true. It also makes webpages unbearably slow to load in certain high latency situations.
There's a lot of stuff that ought to be balanced. I'm not sure where to draw the line, but nor can I really say where someone has done right or wrong in most places.
Suckless' site isnt transporting passwords in the clear. That's really the only concrete thing I feel like everyone will ever agree upon.
No.2758
>>2211>I'll never forget how when asked on their IRC why the suckless.org website didn't have TLS, they unironically said it was "bloat".>Security is bloat. Case closed.I like suckless and i was going to defend them, but they distribute code over http, and sha256 sums in band http. No cryptographic signatures. IMO this is a pretty big oversight. I can understand not deploying tls for a static blog that protects no user info or using gpg signatures instread of tls, but they are distributing code without tls or gpg.
No.2765
>>2758Isn't it the same with Stallman who believe security is kind of useless with his "Password story"?
Like wise i like the philosophy but there is many hole in there that i don't like.
No.2772
>>2758They probably expect you to read it yourself. In a sense, you're the crypto signature
No.2791
>>2773Sites should fail gracefully, what if I'm using a browser without an ssl implementation?
No.2792
>>2791>Sites should fail gracefully, what if I'm using a browser without an ssl implementation?Then I'd ask to borrow your time machine, as you're obviously new to this century.
No.2856
>>2791301 redirects of http to https are bloat
t. suckless autists probably
>>2792this
>>2218>>2248>>2758>>2773https://doesmysiteneedhttps.com/
