/cult/ - Judging Lainzine 4 by the Cover(s)

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Judging Lainzine 4 by the Cover(s) intron 2017/05/04 (Thu) 21:34:28 No.363

Hi, this is intron - cover artist for Lainzine 4 hoping to shed some light on these images posted.

So you may have seen one of these covers being posted about on .org. The attached image sums up how this thing went from a .org sticker to a .jp cover.

More in depth: back in Nov 2016 I approached Appleman1234 on .org with a prototype of a possible sticker design to help promote the site. Additionally, I asked his thoughts on what he thought Lainchan was to get some direction on the artwork. At the time he was still getting a feel for .org but I saw he had a very positive outlook back then - I can only hope that deep down he still feels the same even today.

However, it was decided then that stickers had too much overhead to produce so he had suggested that this could work as a cover for Lainzine. So, I got in touch with editorial staff at Lainzine 4 (Junk & Stopwatch) to get their thoughts on the design. After some tweaks, it was approved and submitted Dec 2016… yes 2016. Quite the delay there that I hope will be mitigated in future releases.

Fast forward to April 2017. Lainzine 4 finally comes out with the .org cover attached BUT shortly pulled after some mathematical typos in one of the articles. (the editorial process is another topic but errors in a technical article needed to be fixed as per the author's request). The initial release happens roughly around the delete/fork of .org/.jp - an event that is not possible to ignore.

To reflect this, I initiated and performed the change from .org to .jp which was then approved and included in the re-release for Lainzine 4 - May 2017.

I expected some controversy but whether it's .org/.jp/both or "Lainchan" omitted completely, people will find a way to take offense. As the fact still remains that Lainzine (as a whole) would not exist without the collective efforts of some admins at .jp. Go read the past issues and you'll know who they are.

>anyone can make x
but you didn't.

Hey, the more zines the merrier! At the end of the day, I'd still work with all Lainons regardless of the .org/.jp fantasy larping but I don't believe it's possible to make something non-partisan apart from just… not making the thing.

Will the cover change?
I presented LZ4 staff with options to run with the .jp change or re-release with .org. I feel editorial decisions are important but of course, they are not always popular decisions. I cannot speak for them but I stand by my own decision to change the so-called "endorsement" from .org to .jp .

Can you look past the ".jp" and read the actual book?
Depends on whether the Lainchan community is more than a domain name to you.

Fun fact: there are actually 3 "endorsements" on the cover. Look hard enough and you'll see 6. Look even harder and you'll see jesus-Lain-sama.

As far as I'm concerned, Lainzine 4 is over and done and I hope this post helps in some way for the Lains that are late to the party.

Looking forward, Lainzine 5 is your opportunity to be the change you wish you see. Get involved and create something.

The Phantom Phreak 2017/05/04 (Thu) 22:51:48 No.365

Go post this on .org. The people who need to see it won't see it here.

Proto 2017/05/05 (Fri) 04:16:20 No.366

>>363
You thoroughly documented when and how the art evolved from a sticker promoting applechan to a magazine cover endorsing lainchan.jp, but you never actually explained why you did so. What inspired you to endorse lainchan.jp?

Now that we have new administration what's stopping us from using it as a sticker for lainchan.jp? I can't speak for others, but I would love to get one.

Absolutely sick fucking art by the way. Do you have a portfolio of your work?

Chisa Yomoda 2017/05/05 (Fri) 09:34:08 No.367

Can we continue adding lainchan.jp to future editions? I think it would be a huge help to getting more traffic to this site.
The site as a whole is good but could use more users and I think doing what we did with lainzine 4 could really help with numbers.

maps 2017/05/05 (Fri) 12:09:22 No.368

>>363
I don't understand why you couldn't just endorse both, ie, .this on one side, .that on the other. (I keep getting blocked from making this post, so I'm seeing if changing the domains will fix that.)

Sure, the editorial staff are more represented on this site (.us) as opposed to .them However, the content comes from Lainons. I'd assume that some of the content created for the #4 was made by lainons now loyal to .them, and from reading the thread on .them, lainons there are clearly upset and feel betrayed.

Ultimately, I think leaving issue #4 with an endorsement of one site over the other is hugely problematic in terms of attempting to sustain the lainzine; it gives .them users the impression that their concerns are not important and they should just suck it up and move on. While I think it is important to move forward, leaving these concerns unaddressed is a big mistake, as I see it.

People will be upset no matter what - people from either side of the domain divide will want it to just be their domain, some folks will call for an end to the drama simply because there's controversy, and ultimately, there's no way to make every party happy.

However, I think making this issue completely neutral (ie, endorsing both/removing the domain and letting 'lainchan' stand on its own) is the most utilitarian option, and the best way to assuage the concerns and criticisms of .them contributors, past and future, who are feeling like they got the soykaf end of the stick in this situation.

>>365
This lainon is correct; this should really be addressed to the bereaved. Be prepared that some lainons are pretty unhappy, and that there's stupid tribalism on either side of the domain divide. However, it looks like someone has beat you to the punch.

maps 2017/05/05 (Fri) 12:12:33 No.369

>>368
Yeah, removing the '.foo' let this post go through. For the record, let me be clear: I used 'us' vs 'them' simply to clarify; I don't endorse that style of thinking nor do I wish to express preference for one lainchan over another at this time.

I will state without comment that there does appear to be some difficulties in using words that refer to one instance or the other; I've had to neutralize words in both posts pretty heavily.

intron 2017/05/06 (Sat) 00:28:46 No.373

(the wordfiltered .foo is awks but I get why it was added)

>>366
The reason I document the process in detail is so Lainons can know that I asked input from people I thought represented the community at the time. This is pretty important for both .there and .here as once upon a time everyone was all at one place but here we are, now divided between two sites.

You cannot deny there's a split and I would be remiss not to address the white elephant in the room.
>Why .here?
I touched on this on the original post, the majority of the people that handled and coordinated previous zines have moved over to this site. I wanted to acknowledge that and draw attention to the fact we wouldn't be here without them. No it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows the whole time but I just know things are different now and I'd rather not pretend like nothing happened.

Yes, a zine could have - would have been made without them but there's only so much what-ifs we can think about before we are faced with reality.

Also, thanks for your kind words; I do have a port but I wish to remain somewhat anonymous. I'm not aware of any sticker plans on .here but I wouldn't be opposed to either site using a version of it.

>>367
That's an editorial decision that would be made at the time but traffic is traffic. If you want numbers, you can ramp up whatever magic advertising campaign but in the end, quality over quantity and all that.

>>368
As far as I know, the editorial team is one unit. Maybe a separate .there edition can work but the decision was made and editors have a finality to their choices. Personally, I don't have a problem with a cover version of .there but if only one edition is allowed it would have to be .here for reasons I mentioned.

Maybe we keep the Lainchan and remove the .there/.here
What about back issues? They are a reflection of the state of Lainchan at the time…

A superficial change may quell things temporarily but the actual problem is much deeper than a cover change. But I'm hoping lainons are able to discuss and realize what the actual problems are and what really matters to them in the end. (judging by the .there thread it seems it's happening at some level which is obviously a good thing)

I appreciate my post was relayed but if contributors would like to speak with me, just know that I don't control what gets published in the end. I don't have a magic bullet solution either but we can certainly talk about it .here since this thread is already up in /cult/

Unnamed 2017/05/06 (Sat) 01:08:29 No.378

>>367
A part of me is glad you said this. not because I think we should do it, but because people on applechan are literally looking for blood. Anything will make them mad, so fuck it, right?

no but I can understand why they wouldn't want to do it.
>>368
The issue already released. changing it again would be in bad form, and honestly it's completely unnecessary - lainzines 1-3 have applechan on them somewhere, if you really wanted to be "neutral" then that's what you'd do. But I'd rather move forward than dwell on an older release.

Nezumi 2017/05/06 (Sat) 07:37:32 No.380

How about in the future you just do variant covers for both sites like with comic books?

Lord Nikon 2017/05/06 (Sat) 07:54:56 No.381

i don't like the cover variant idea. lainchan is bigger than one site, so says the homepage. i think the best way to express this sentiment is to simply list both sites. removing the suffix would work too, but imo this leaves the question of which is canon lainchan open for debate… when in reality there is no canon lainchan.

Masami Eiri 2017/05/06 (Sat) 10:04:37 No.384

where can we find more of your art?

intron 2017/05/06 (Sat) 14:43:53 No.390

>>380
>>381
Variant covers may not bear any semblance to the book content as I've seen this with comics offering like 10 diff covers. Some can be pretty random or cater to a specific niche or

a e s t h e t i q u e

but there's always a main/canon cover otherwise, there's nothing to vary.

Maybe there could be a variant for each site but how can you represent .here and .there without dividing up their tastes and still be relevant?
Maybe a 2 part cover that makes a bigger image when placed next to the other one?
One side might not like their image, one side might want to go on the left, etc, etc.
Vary the cover why not vary the contents too? This type of thing comes up as well and we might just end up back at the split…

Apart from design and potential problems, getting just one edition out is a soykaf ton of work in itself and this volunteer zine is understaffed as is. Maybe we'll get enough cover submissions to make it happen but my initial feels are that differences between .here and .there need to be sorted out first along with addressing all the contribs. I know people want answers but there's only so much I'm aware of at this point.

>>384
An art thread just opened up so I'll post something there for you dear lainon.

Saito 2017/05/09 (Tue) 08:36:43 No.422

dont make a separate cover for .org lmao, possibly dont even slap .jp on cover or anywhere either really.

all it takes is ONE reddit (or something else but most likely this) post that will garner a soykafton of attention (and seeing how this is really pretty good it might happen easily) and voila - apple's cesspool now looks like heaven compared to this place with its relatively slow posting and influx of new (soykaf) people

but defo dont feature .org on cover or anywhere else imo, no matter how you feel about what I wrote above.

intron 2017/05/09 (Tue) 14:13:29 No.423

>>422
I get what you're saying and I feel that also goes for the contents of the interior as well to be consistent. I won't assume I'll be doing the cover for the next one as submissions are still open but that's def in consideration for LZ5.

IME Redditors can be fickle with the whole karma thing and innocuous posts can reach critical mass for random reasons. I can't control what happens once a thing is released to the public but my feels are that traffic is just a numbers game. (Speaking from experience I know that people rarely follow through on links or even care about backstory) Retaining quality members is more important but can also be a mystery in how that even happens. People just decide to stay and well, it's not always easy to explain why.