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Is Alice a Lost Future by herself, thrown into this present? She's closing herself from contemporary mainstream influence while her own culture and behavior seems more based off what she saw from older media.




Not OP, but I think it is referring to the conceptualization of cyberpunk as "Lost Future" genre proposed by accelerationist philosopher Mark Fisher, mentioned in other thread (>>3177). The gist is that cyberpunk as a extrapolation of technological and social trends of the 80's is the future that never came - technology and society advanced, but not quite in the way it was predicted back then. As far as I understand the OP is asking if being Alice, fixated on all the Neuromancers, Blade Runners and Ghosts in the Shells, is not just a way of making yourself irrelevant.


I read Fischer's book but I still don't get just what hauntology is. On the other hand, it made me feel really nostalgic about London's past jungle raves.


So hauntology or the study of lost futures comes stems from a prevailing belief in a cultural mindset that has utterly fails to come to fruition.

Since Fischer talks about communism so will I. After the Bolshevik revolution Russia started focusing on this new fangled ideology: Communism. They were convinced that although it wasn't perfect yet, through hard work and determination they could make their communist utopia a reality. Children learned it was the goal, and their children, and their children's children too.

Obviously it didn't happen but the ingrained cultural belief that it was the one true way to the good life could not be removed overnight. In fact many Eastern European countries today still have many people say they preferred when they were behind the Iron Curtain.

You can't just let an ideology that previously defined your entire existence stop mattering by tearing down a wall. The hopes and dreams of that ideology are going to be present for a long, long time. Since the ideology sticks around a certain fascination with what SHOULD have been develops and this is the root of hauntology.

We can pinpoint the causes of specific fantasies in the promises to society that were never kept and in doing so we can better understand the desires of a hauntologically inclined society.

Vaporwave is the culmination of this phenomenon with capitalism. See also: "Vaporwave and the Commodification of Ghosts"


I understand it as being not a study of a situation but simply being the term given to a situation itsellf. Case in point mentioned above, the nostalgia for the future promised by communism. Hauntology doesn't study the nostalgia; the nostalgia is an example of a hauntology.

In the language of its origin, French, the word is a homophone to "ontology". It's not the other kind of -ology at all (you know, like biology or geology).


You are right. I was facetiously using the "study of" definition to get a point across.


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I feel like vaporwave is kind of a rebellion to the endless stream of fads. We grew up with a whole symbolism of 2000-fascination to see it being killed off by the 2000s culture, and see this one die again to be replaced again. In the end, we prefer to stick up with the aesthetics and promises that fascinated us as children and work on them until it truly flourishes instead of jumping to the next big fad.

To be eager to grow up until you realize your childish dreams and fantasies of all kinds got killed off by the capitalist train feels like a betrayal. Also, Michael Jackson was alive.


I only know vaporwave as a joke that was on 4chan/mu some years ago, I was surprised to learn that people were using it to seriously define their music.

What you say can almost be said of any type of music. There aren't really fads in the old sense anymore, the new fads are only viral phenomena that burn out even faster. Young people, I mean the post Facebook generation, don't seem to even pirate whole albums anymore, only listen to songs on youtube. People who are still serious about music, or think they are, haven't invented a new subculture in quite a while, they mostly have just broken down existing genres in sub-sub-subgenres and rehash music from previous decades.


Vaporwave has developed a lot since the days of the Vektroid memes. I can't really think of any genres that are similar to it. Sure sampling pop hits is nothing new but the aesthetic (yes I am using it unironically) that vaporwave seeks is wholly unique IMO. Here a couple songs that I would be curious to hear your opinions on if all you've heard is MACROSS 82-99


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This. I like Macross a lot but him and Yung Bae were essentially the only ones most people listened to, most of the genre being a bit too hazy to handle.

The Dan Mason video is more in phase with what I perceive to be vaporwave, stock music which depicts either a past still here, or a Lost Future, since it's the subject of this thread.
By the way, the 2814 ambient albums are pretty nice, especially while working. I often use albums from Kodak Cameo, Architecture in Tokyo, Saint Pepsi or コンシャスTHOUGHTS when I need some pseudo-90s background music. I guess many people resort to future funk because they like the sound of that time and the Anime reskin but can't be bothered to do their research on who to listen.
You could say vaporwave is a pretty useful tool to make up your 90s anime cyberpunk ambient room. But from a purely musical perspective it doesn't stand the comparison with the real music of the era. It's the anime girl of music: easy to get, detached from reality, so simplified it can't teach anything, but that ethereal condition is what makes it subside. Even the aesthetics are found in mass media now, I don't think it's stranger to the later phase of neo-80s hype of some years ago, and even IU has some vaporwave influence in Palette.


Although I will say in the days of Vektroid and Macintosh Plus. the genre was kinda at a standstill, probably because it was in its prototype stage.

That is, until Blank Banshee came along.


I was being needlessly harsh up there. Apologies. The truth is I don't think this music is for me anyway but the looped Bud Lite clips made me giggle quite a lot for some reason.

Does dungeon synth count for hauntology? I think it should get extra points for the pun. "Haunt"… get it? Hee hee (sigh).


your analysis is the anime girl of analyses.


No need to be irked by the widely recognized truth. Vaporwave isn't described as a "satire genre" with no reason.


ik; i try not to b.
the widely-recognized, "satire genre"-related parts of your analysis aren't the ones i take issue with though.


A big problem with vaporwave is the lack of creativity imo. There are some good songs, but a huge number of vaporwave is just taking the original slowing it down and uploading it. I saw a video comparing vaporwave songs and their original samples and most, even Macintosh Plus are not that different from the original, at least not in a meaningful way.


There certainly is a lot of basic ones but especially now in 2018 the artists have gotten quite innovative. I am not a fan of sped-down 80's city pop either (I would rather just listen to the OG, shout out to Plastic Love and Anri)

But just like any oversaturated genre there are more than a few diamond's in the rough. Those second two albums I linked sound nothing like "just taking the original slowing it down and uploading it". You would struggle to even identify the sample with them. Here are a few more that do A LOT more than just pitch down a pop hit. (If it wasn't obvious already I fuck heavily with Vaporwave)

It seems to me that the main reason we have a disconnect here on just how unoriginal vaporwave is, is because most people that do not listen to vaporwave have only heard the unoriginal stuff.


Thanks for the links man, bad morning is an amazing song. I agree that vaporwave has evolved from a meme (where samples where slowed down with barely any editing) to now where there is actual music being created.

It's hard to define vaporwave though, I think it started off as a satire of "strip-mall" 90's capitalism but people also refer to any sort of lo-fi, synth and electronic music as vaporwave so it does get confusing.


Usagi cute!


and it was cool michael jackson in his prime michael jackson


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Echoed 80s pop samples and adobe ae vhs effects are lame

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